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Professor Mani, I'm glad to hear that your books are selling so well.

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I wish I could do it.

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I'm glad to see Professor Mani here tonight at Major Kehoe.

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I had a very interesting experience about two weeks ago.

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This is unique in the field of flying saucer research.

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Over at Fairfield, Illinois, where this boy Ron Austin and his girlfriend were reportedly chased by this lighted object.

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This could conceivably have happened because we have had a great many similar reports from other places and other times.

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This is typical of such cases. I see no reason to doubt the boy, although like the others, he was unable to prove it.

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It was also typical in another way. The Air Force dashed in there.

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Although they assured the people of Fairfield that these things were always investigated by the nearest air base,

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they didn't let Scott Field, which was 50 miles away, investigate that when they sent three fellows from Dayton.

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I guess maybe Dayton has been moved considerably since I last saw it.

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At any rate, it seemed to have been closer, that is, in Air Force terms, than the Scott base.

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These three fellows went in there and their research consisted largely of buying beer for the local politicians and the police

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and discussing it with them over a tall, frosty glass, as they say on television.

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After they had finished this research, they came up with their conclusions.

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The first, that the object that chased the boy in the car, and which got around in front of him a couple of times and cut across the road in front of him,

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was the planet Jupiter. Believe it or not, there were some people who were not willing to accept that explanation.

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You'll find skeptics everywhere. Then the object that hovered over Fairfield and over Wayne County for 15 minutes and then took off.

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They investigated that one and they assured them that this was a jet tanker plane.

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Friends, when jet tanker planes start hovering, it's time to find some place to hide.

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But I'm fascinated by this Jupiter business. Now, we're spending billions of dollars trying to get to the moon.

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Of course, we have to find out how deep the dust is on the moon.

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And if it's only $7 billion, why it's probably worth it?

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Because nobody really knows how deep the dust is on the moon.

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So we're going to spend $7 billion to find out.

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But this is only the beginning. They tell you this.

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This is only the first payment. Then we're going out into space.

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We're going to visit the planets. This is nonsense. The Air Force says they're visiting us.

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Why go all the way out there when all you've got to do is get a Ford convertible and a girlfriend and leave the drive-in at 11.30?

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It may be scientific to go out there, but it's thrifty to stay and let the planets visit you.

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This isn't the first time this has happened. Oh, no. Not at all.

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In the early days of November, on the night of November 3rd, I believe 1957,

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you remember there was a huge glowing red object that landed on a highway near Levelland, Texas.

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And the cars couldn't get past it. In fact, they couldn't do anything.

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Their engines died, their lights went out, their radios were dead.

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And I have a suspicion that some of the drivers were a little on the dead side too.

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But at any rate, here was a bunch of cars lined up in the road on both sides of this object.

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Couldn't get past it. They couldn't do anything about it. It was about 150 to 200 feet long. It was glowing.

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They said they could hear what seemed to be voices and pounding inside it.

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But presently, it took off and then the cars were able to proceed again.

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Well, on that same night, incidentally, that was explained away very simply.

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It was obvious what that was. It was a fireball.

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Now, as everyone knows, a fireball sometimes gets to be as much as 18 inches in diameter.

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And it's quite possible that those people sitting around there didn't realize that this thing,

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as they thought, was 50 feet in diameter and 150 feet long, was only 18 inches in diameter.

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But that's why the Air Force has to investigate these things to clear up all this mystery about them and these misunderstandings.

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So they took care of that one quickly.

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But that same night, the other incident that I'm referring to took place.

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Over at White Sands, New Mexico, three different groups of military patrols were out roaming the hills

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around this great mass of jitsem, which is really what the White Sands is, that is down in this valley.

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All three of these groups reported the same thing, but from different viewpoints.

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So there couldn't be any question that they saw... No criticism, please.

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So there couldn't be any question that they all saw the same thing from different viewpoints.

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They all came in later and reported it.

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They saw this glowing, brilliant white object come down out of the heavens, hover a short distance above the floor of the desert,

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over the white jitsem, and then it settled on the ground. The light went out.

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Two minutes later, the light came on again.

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The thing rose slowly at first and then climbed rapidly, going straight up and finally disappeared, going out into space again.

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All three of the military patrols agreed on the same thing. That's what they saw.

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Well, of course, the Air Force naturally got right in there and investigated that one and explained it.

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What these boys had seen was the planet Venus. That was the official explanation.

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This must have been one of the great nights in astronomy.

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When those astronomers all around the world trained their telescopes on that point out there in space,

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where Venus had been glistening for so many centuries, they couldn't find it because it was sitting on the sand out in New Mexico.

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And as I say, there are still some skeptics who refuse to accept that.

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That's what makes the Air Force jobs so difficult.

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Over, and this case at Fairfield, Illinois, a few weeks ago, some of the people over there, in fact, I think a very sizable majority of them,

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were angered by the explanations offered by those Air Force experts who went in there.

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And these people simply refused to accept those statements.

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In fact, they regarded them as downright preposterous and they said so.

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So a group of businessmen in Carmi, Illinois, which is about 30 miles from Fairfield,

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made up a fund and they got the proprietor of the Carmi radio station,

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which carries my radio program every day.

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They got him to get in touch with me and to make arrangements for me to come in there on September the 4th,

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for which they rented the high school auditorium at Carmi, a beautiful place, incidentally.

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And they wanted me to come in and tell these people what I knew about these visiting planets, I guess you'd call.

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So what I was really doing was going in to explain the Air Force explanation.

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We had in this 790-seat auditorium, we had about 900 people,

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and then we had a couple of hundred, maybe 300 outside on camp stools out there

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and sitting in their cars listening to the program over a public address system.

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And I thought this was a pretty fine turnout and a pretty good demonstration

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of the interest that the people had in this subject in which all of us here have been interested so long.

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The important thing about this business was not that they sent for me,

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but the important thing was that this is the first time since these things burst into the news in 1947

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that a community has rebelled against the explanations offered by the Air Force

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and has taken any action to find out for themselves what is going on,

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or at least to get a different viewpoint other than that presented by the Air Force.

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As a matter of fact, this thing attracted so much attention,

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it got front-page stories in the Evansville papers, which are about 90 miles away.

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And I felt quite pleased by that because the Evansville, the editor of the Evansville paper

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told me they hadn't carried any flying saucer stories for several years.

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And so when he carried this one on the front page, the fact that I was over there

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and when I had to say I was real flattered by all this, I hope it does some good,

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but I don't know that it will. I'll tell you why.

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The newspapers are, many of them are in a bad spot on this thing.

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Since 1952 when these things swarmed over Washington, D.C. in July and August,

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there has been a very tight lid of censorship.

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And since that particular time, the newswires have apparently been reluctant,

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if not downright unwilling, to carry these reports on a national basis.

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So the newspapers that would be willing to carry these reports,

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all times don't find them on their newswires.

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And sometimes when they do find them, they bear little or no resemblance to what actually happened.

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So don't criticize the newspapers and the broadcasting stations for not carrying the reports.

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All times the trouble lies not with them, but with the wire services which are supposed to cover the news for them.

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Sometimes the wire services simply don't do it.

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I'll give you a splendid example of what I'm talking about.

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On the night of April 18, 1962, a glowing red object was spotted high in the sky over northern New York State.

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It was tracked by radar, and this was confirmed by the Air Force.

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Tracked by radar across the Midwest, it got out to Eureka, Nevada,

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and it, or a similar object, landed beside a power station in Eureka, Nevada.

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The power station was out of business for 42 minutes while this object was there on the ground near it.

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This was confirmed by strategic air command.

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When the object took off, which means it could not possibly have been a meteor,

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when the object took off, the Air Force admits that they had two flights of jet interceptors in the air,

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and they were vectored in on this object, which was taking off near the power station.

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The power station came back into service again when the object took off.

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The two jet flights, one from Steadfield and one from Phoenix, were vectored in on the thing.

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The object crossed southern Nevada with the jets, presumably in pursuit, since the Air Force admits they were after it,

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and the object exploded in the air with an extremely brilliant flash about 70 miles south of Reno over the Mesquite Range,

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which is one of the most desolate places on the American continent.

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Now, scientists who saw that flash said it was so brilliant that in their opinion,

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it must have been an atomic explosion of some kind.

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The Air Force would not say whether they had shot at the object, whether they had hit the object, or what happened to it.

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They merely would confirm that it had exploded in flight at that particular place.

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Now, this whole story was available to the wire services exactly as it was to the newspapers in that community.

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If you want to get the whole story in print, send for a copy of the Las Vegas Sun for April 19, 1962.

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You'll find it a front page story there in all the details, including the statements of confirmation from the Air Force,

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the Strategic Air Command, and the others who were in evidently in a complete funk

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because of the magnitude and importance of what had happened.

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They made individually statements which I'm sure they wouldn't have made if they'd had a little more time to think about it.

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But the statements were made to the newspapers, were printed in those papers.

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You'll find it in the Las Vegas Sun, April 19, 1962.

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Now, this was all available to the news services, Associated Press and United Press,

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just as it was to those newspapers that carried it out there.

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I was only able to find one story on United Press, a four-line story,

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purporting to tell of this whole incident, and what did they tell their clients?

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An unidentified object, believed to have been a meteor, was tracked across the Midwest last night

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and exploded with a blinding flash over southwestern Utah.

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That's what the press wire said.

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In the first place, the Air Force said it could not have been a meteor.

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And it was pretty obvious that it couldn't because you can't track a meteor on radar,

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and this one had been tracked for hundreds of miles.

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Meteors don't land and take off again. This one did, and that was confirmed.

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So that news wire story certainly did not cover the known facts which had been confirmed by government statements in this case.

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I think this is probably one of the most important cases that has taken place in this country in a long, long time.

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Whenever something comes down out of the sky and lands beside an electric generating station,

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and for whatever reason that station is out of business, while this unidentified object is there on the ground near the station,

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according to these official statements, then something very important has happened.

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But you'd never know it from the kind of treatment it got on the news wires.

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And if it hadn't been for the Las Vegas Sun and a couple of other favors in the immediate area,

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there would have been nothing about this, I'm sure, that would have leaked out for years, if ever.

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But they were aggressive, they were alert, they got in there and got the story.

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The news wires dropped the ball as far as their clients were concerned.

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I am intrigued by some of the things that are being set in recent years,

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which seem to me to indicate that the public mind is being slowly conditioned for the realization,

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first, that we are not alone in the universe,

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and second, that we have either had company or were going to have company before long.

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Now, of course, Dr. Hermann O'Barroth, the great German rocket scientist and space travel expert,

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a very outspoken man, and when he concluded his three years of research on the unidentified flying objects

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for the West German government, he said in a public statement that he and his colleagues had come to the conclusion

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that these things did not originate in our solar system,

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but that they came from great distances across space,

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that they might have used Mars and the moon as way stations,

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that they were conceived and directed by intelligent beings of a very high order,

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and that they propelled themselves by distorting the gravitational field.

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Well, that was quite a statement, but the government found out that they needed Dr. O'Barroth badly and quickly

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after he made that statement, and five days later they flew him down to Huntsville, Alabama,

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put him on a government payroll down there. He was also under government restrictions.

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That meant he didn't make any more public statements about flying saucers.

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Four years later, the old gentleman had to get back to Europe,

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or he would have lost the rights to his pension over there,

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so he got out of his five-year contract at Huntsville.

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He got out of it one year early. He went back to Frankfurt, Germany, and qualified for his pension.

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The day he landed at Frankfurt, he held another press conference,

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and he said exactly the same thing again that I've just quoted to you,

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and he said, many nations, including the United States, are engaged in a program of research

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on means of countering gravity and of using it as a method of propulsion.

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The United States has made considerable progress, said Dr. O'Barroth,

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and I predict that within five and at the outside ten years,

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men will be traveling to the moon in devices propelled by some form of electrical energy.

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Well, this was really pretty much what he had said before,

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and he was asked if he meant ion engines. He said no. He did not.

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Then he didn't amplify.

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Now, this was an important statement coming from a man who is one of the world's greatest living authorities on space travel and rocketry.

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He certainly knows any.

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General Douglas MacArthur, who is by no means a visionary,

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said in an interview published in The New York Times on October the 9th, 1955,

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when he was asked by the reporter about the prospects for World War III,

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General MacArthur said,

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the nations of the world will have to unite for the next war will be an interplanetary war.

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The reporters thanked him and went back to the office, and when his editor saw that line,

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he practically threw the reporter out of the office, and he said,

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get back over there and get the story, man. There is the story in that last line.

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There is no one when he got back over there. Are there reviews to see him anymore?

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General MacArthur returned to this theme when he addressed the graduating class in 1962 at West Point.

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He had kind of a long statement here, which I'm going to have to read to you.

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General MacArthur told the graduating class at West Point in 1962,

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we are reaching out for a new and boundless frontier,

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and we are faced with the likelihood of ultimate contact between a united human race

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and the possibly sinister forces of some other planetary galaxy,

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faced with realities so fantastic that they will make life in the years ahead

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the most exciting of all time.

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I'm surprised that MacArthur has stressed that same theme that we are about to encounter,

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what he regards as sinister forces from elsewhere in space.

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General MacArthur is not alone in that.

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Speaking at Millicon University in Decatur, Illinois on January the 9th, 1963,

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Brigadier General John MacDavid, he's in charge of communications between the members of the Joint Chiefs of Staff

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and therefore in a position to be pretty well informed on what's going on,

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told his audience there at Millicon University, and I quote him,

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Before long, people will be forced to accept as a fact that this earth is but a grain of sand in an infinite universe,

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and that the human is but one of many forms of life with which God is concerned,

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and that many of the others are far superior to us.

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MacArthur, over, MacDavid are not alone in these statements.

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In late 1962, Dr. Carl Sagan, who is the advisor on extraterrestrial life to the armed services of the United States,

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told the American Rocket Society Convention that we must be prepared to face the probability that we have already been visited

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by intelligent beings from outer space, and the likelihood, he said, that as a requisite to these visits,

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they would have built and maintained bases on the averted side of the moon.

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Now, in this connection, I'd like to point out something to you.

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When the Russians sent their lunic to the moon to make photographs,

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they took every single frame on the averted side of the moon.

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They never took a single frame on the side where they hoped to land a man in the near future,

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but they spent all their pictures on the averted side of the moon,

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where, according to some of our scientists, someone may already have landed.

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I should also like to call your attention to the fact

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that if we go to Mars, as we hope to if our money holds out,

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we intend, and this has been publicly stated, we intend to land on one or both of the moons of Mars,

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from which we can establish a base and an observation post to scrutinize Mars at close range for signs of life.

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It's a very logical thing to do.

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It's exactly what someone else would have done if they were coming to the Earth

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and found a moon, one side of which could not be seen from the Earth.

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It would be a perfectly logical place to set up a base and look it over.

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So when we spend $7 billion to get to the moon, presumably for the purpose of finding out how deep the dust is,

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what we are really doing is taking the first long step back along the path

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which Dr. O'Bareth and many other scientists believe that others have already taken on their way to us.

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This is a logical thing for us to do and a logical thing for any others to do who might be coming our way.

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Major Patrick Powers, the head of the Army Research and Development,

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a few years ago that the first men to land on the moon would in all probability have to fight for the privilege.

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And therefore he said our first spacecraft to the moon will have to be armed.

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Why he said that, we don't know. He refused to amplify the statement.

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I think it is important and interesting that a gentleman in his position made such a statement.

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But when you put all these bits and pieces together, when you go back and look at the record of all the phenomena

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that took place on the moon in one two-year period, over 2,000 separate examples of phenomena reported by the members of the Royal Astronomical Society

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on the moon in one two-year period.

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And when you look at the chronological sequence, after all this phenomenon on the moon, huge craft

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which appeared to be intelligently conceived and directed began to be seen in the Earth's atmosphere and at various points around the Earth.

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Again in more recent years, smaller craft which appeared to be conducting an intensive and well-directed surveillance of all the points of interest and importance on the Earth.

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And now in more recent years, cases where smaller objects of a slightly different type have been seen in close proximity to aircraft, automobiles, boats,

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in one case to my knowledge, a diesel engine, and they appear to be, if these are intelligently conceived and directed, then they appear to be trying to find out what effects they have on our electrical systems,

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including as in the case in Utah and also a couple of similar cases in Brazil, what effect they have on our power generating and distributing systems.

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Oddly enough, this is exactly what we would do if we go to another planet and find it inhabited.

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And apparently somebody has beaten us to the punch.

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I think it is interesting that so many people, after all these years, in spite of all the statements of ridicule from the Air Force,

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I think it's interesting and important that so many people are still interested in this subject and have refused to accept the Air Force statements as fact.

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I think it's interesting that so many radio stations and television stations now are willing to devote time to this subject.

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I get calls all the time from colleges and universities who ask me to come there and speak to them on this subject, and they're willing to pay for it.

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I just spoke at Drury College in Springfield, Missouri not long ago.

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That's the most recent one. I have some others that will come up in the next few weeks.

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I'm being invited into places and before groups to discuss this subject when I know that these same institutions and organizations would not have been caught dead

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in a room two or three years ago where some nut was going to talk about flying saucers.

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Something has happened. I don't know what it is. I don't know what it is at all.

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But something has happened. Either the public has, or many people have decided for themselves that there's more going on than they're being told,

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or else so many people have seen these things who don't mention it for fear of being ridiculed,

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that there must be a sort of a groundswell of public interest which is cropping out in these ways that I've just indicated.

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Anybody want to wasp? Would you like to have that?

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These sorts of blinking red light, I'm leaving.

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I had a television show in Indianapolis for a long time.

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One night I had the publisher of an Indianapolis paper on the show as my guest.

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Very intelligent, very successful man in that field.

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As we got near the end of the show and we had stopped for that blessed pause known as the closing commercial,

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he leaned over to me and he said, could I talk to you privately after the program?

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I said, sure. So after it was all over, we went over to my office, closed the door, and said, what's on your mind?

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He said, I want you to know that I'm with you 100% on these flying saucers.

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I said, well, I think that's wonderful that you've taken that attitude.

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I said, I'd never know it by reading your paper.

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And he kind of warmed up a little, you know, and he said, well, you know how it is.

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I said, you bet I know how it is.

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I said, I've been out here talking about something that I believe in and working on it for 14 or 15 years.

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And I said, it's a great thing to know that standing in the background, hiding behind his desk is a man like you that is 100% with me.

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I said, you may be 100% with me, but you're 100 miles behind me. That's what hurts.

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Well, he says, you know, I can't print that stuff.

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He said, people would ridicule me.

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Now, there was a man who dutifully prints these Air Force statements, which come out twice a year, generally just before I'm on the link letter show.

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I'm not kidding about that. It does.

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Here's a guy who dutifully prints those Air Force statements that the Air Force can explain everything, and there's nothing up there for us.

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He believes, according to what he told me, that that's a lie.

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And he believes that the reports that there is something up there is true, but he'll print the Air Force stuff in which he says he disbelieves, and won't print the other side of the story in which he says he believes.

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This, I think, is an outstanding example of dutlust journalism.

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I told him so.

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And I don't know whether he's still with me 100% or not.

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But really, I don't care. He wasn't doing me a lot of good.

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I mentioned the Art Link Letter Show there a moment ago.

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Last year, I had a book called Strange People that came out.

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And incidentally, you can still buy that if you want to.

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And I went out to be on the Link Letter Show.

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And so I was on there on Valentine's Day with him.

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After the show was over, I don't know what we talked about the book, certainly, because he sold 7,000 copies for me.

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But I don't know what else we talked about.

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But it was some form of unexplainable incidents that are in the book.

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And after it was over, Art said, look, can you make another show with me before you leave town?

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And I said, well, after pretty soon, I'm leaving it there, too.

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I said, what do you want? He said, I want to talk to you about these flying saucers.

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I said, why? Well, he said, my wife and I have seen two of them.

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I said, well, man, you're nuts. Don't you know that?

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He said, never mind about that. Never mind.

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We know what we saw.

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He said, I said, well, do you ever talk about them on the air? Well, he said, I will with you.

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I said, all right, let's cut it tomorrow because I got to leave.

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I went back the next day and right off the bat, we got into this show and we got to talking about, you know, these non-existent things.

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And so we actually had about 12 minutes coast to coast on CBS, over a total of about 400 radio and TV stations.

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And this was set for April the second last year, which was a couple of weeks, three weeks away.

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I found out afterwards that when CBS released their program sheets of what was upcoming,

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my name, of course, was listed on there on the subject in bingo.

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The Air Force asked if they could see this tape of this particular show.

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Well, of course, CBS is willing to let us see it.

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Two men came out to the CBS plant out there on Fairfax and they ran the tape for them and they thanked CBS and left.

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Two days before I came out on the air, they issued one of those statements that they'd examined up to 10 million reports and there was positively nothing to it.

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And I have a feeling that there was some relationship between their visit and the fact that I was going to be on Monday and they released this report on Friday.

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It happened once before. That's why I think that there was some connection between the two.

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I was I was mentioned a while ago that I get a lot of calls from places and people and people turn up who are afraid to mention what they've seen because of ridicule.

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I was speaking one time for the West Virginia Women's Club convention over at Huntington.

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And it was all I've been going on maybe 40, 45 minutes.

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I got to a public discussion period and a very well dressed lady got up, middle-aged lady.

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And she said, you don't know me, but I think most of the people here do.

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She had been the former secretary of this association. She said she introduced herself.

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She said that her husband was a surgeon.

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And I don't remember where they live now, but she said that they had a farm near Columbus, Ohio.

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And two or three years before, they had had a very interesting experience at this farm, but they had never mentioned it to anyone except the editor of their local paper just to be on record.

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She said, because of my husband's business, we felt that we should not subject ourselves to possible ridicule, but we did want somebody to know about it.

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And we told the editor of the local paper and asked him not to say anything about it.

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But she said, my husband and I were talking last night, and when he found out that I was coming here today and what the subject was going to be,

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he said, I don't think it would hurt anything if you told that man what happened to us.

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So she said, I'm not only telling you, I'm telling everybody.

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Well, the gist of it was this. They had gone to their farm on a cold, wintry snowy day somewhere over here in Columbus, Ohio,

335
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as they were leaving, driving along a ridge on a gravelly road.

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Thank you.

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I thought I was kidding.

338
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This one's got a lot better now. Saucers will get faster and thicker.

339
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They were driving along this gravel road about three o'clock on Sunday afternoon.

340
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At the bottom of the hill on the right, a couple or 300 yards from them, according to their estimate,

341
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there was a little old frozen creek with some scraggly trees, leafless, of course, along there,

342
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and something shiny on the ground over beyond these trees.

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And her husband saw this and he said, it looks like the roof is blown off of one of our barns.

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And he stopped. And as he did, this thing began to rise and came up over the trees and came toward them.

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She said, and she told that audience there that day, that this thing was disc shaped, 25 or 30 feet in diameter,

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with a low rounded dome on it. They saw no means of propulsion. They heard no sound.

347
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They saw no apertures of any kind in it.

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Her husband killed the engine about that time and they had some very excited conversation about what they were going to do,

349
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and they decided to do nothing.

350
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At any rate, they definitely were not going to get out of their car.

351
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The thing came over the road in front of them and stopped for a few seconds, and then it went up over them.

352
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And her husband said, what's it doing now? She said, you look out. I don't care.

353
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So she said a few seconds later, they saw it moving away to their left, which would have been to the west,

354
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and it was rising rapidly and they watched it. She said for perhaps 20 or 30 seconds and it was gone.

355
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And she said that both of them were simply terrified by what they had seen,

356
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and she added that her husband was generally a very careful, slow, careful driver.

357
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Forgot all about slow, careful driving, and they got out of there throwing gravel on both sides of the road.

358
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And I can't say that I really blamed them.

359
00:36:02,240 --> 00:36:10,240
Now, I've been interested in these things since 1947 when they first broke into the Northwest in great numbers,

360
00:36:10,240 --> 00:36:14,240
and I'm sure all of you remember that event.

361
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And I have strained my eyes, I've changed glasses several times since then.

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I have strained my eyes looking for one of these things, and I have told literally millions of people

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what to do when they see one of these things.

364
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Take a coin, hold it at arm's length, measure the size of the object by the coin if you can.

365
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Look at your watch, see what time it is, see how long the thing is in sight, which way it goes, approximately what angle.

366
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I've told people over and over again what to do.

367
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When I saw mine, I forgot all about it.

368
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I walked out of this television station, which is a little south of Indianapolis, on the 9th of October the 12th, 1961,

369
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about 10 minutes after 8, I walked out of this pitch dark out there, the receptors have forgotten to turn on the lights out front, thank heaven.

370
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And I walked out there and started toward the parking lot, which means that I was walking north toward the city of Indianapolis,

371
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and all of a sudden I looked up and there is this great silvery looking ball hanging up there in the sky.

372
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It was apparently over the Madison Avenue Expressway, which would mean that I was about a quarter of a mile from it if my guess was correct.

373
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And I say that's apparently where it was because the underside of it was well lighted from this blast of light,

374
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which in that area simply had to come from the expressway, it must have been over there close to it.

375
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It was hovering, it was motionless. There was a rim of some sort around the center of this thing,

376
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although I could only see it at that particular moment as a big shadow, a dark place around the middle of it,

377
00:37:57,240 --> 00:38:06,240
but it was a silvery, it looked like an aluminum ball of some sort, had two blinking red lights on top and two blinking blue lights underneath.

378
00:38:06,240 --> 00:38:09,240
And they were blinking very rapidly about like that.

379
00:38:09,240 --> 00:38:16,240
Well, I stood there with my mouth open watching this thing, and after I'd watched it for perhaps 10 or 15 seconds,

380
00:38:16,240 --> 00:38:24,240
it went into a tight climbing spiral and it went up, I should guess, perhaps a thousand feet above it's where it was when I first saw it,

381
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which would put it up around 1500 to 2000 feet, and then it tilted over and I could see this rim,

382
00:38:31,240 --> 00:38:35,240
but it tilted over slightly on its side and hung there for about 15 or 20 seconds,

383
00:38:35,240 --> 00:38:42,240
and then without straightening up, it suddenly shot away to the south just as though it had been shot out of a slingshot,

384
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and in a matter of 10 or 15 seconds it was gone in the dark south of the city.

385
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Well, I turned around and got my legs to working again, it wasn't easy, and I got back in the station,

386
00:38:53,240 --> 00:38:58,240
and by that time the switchboard was all lighted up like a Christmas tree in the receptionism going nuts,

387
00:38:58,240 --> 00:39:02,240
trying to handle these calls because we were getting calls from all over town,

388
00:39:02,240 --> 00:39:07,240
and it developed that hundreds of people had seen this thing, some of them had had a much better view of it than I had,

389
00:39:07,240 --> 00:39:13,240
because it had hovered over the Naval avionics plant over in northeast Indianapolis for about 15 minutes,

390
00:39:13,240 --> 00:39:22,240
and a lot of people had stopped along the highway to watch it, and the entire choir of a church nearby came out and stood out there and got a look at it,

391
00:39:22,240 --> 00:39:30,240
and they told me that they could see either flare ports or some sort of little yellow portholes just above this rim.

392
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I couldn't see them because I guess I was too far away, but these people were undoubtedly much closer.

393
00:39:36,240 --> 00:39:42,240
They couldn't have been, if it was over the Naval avionics plant, then they were not more than about two or three blocks from it.

394
00:39:42,240 --> 00:39:53,240
I would guess that the thing that I saw was about 150 feet in diameter, and it appeared to be absolutely spherical with the exception of this rim around the center of it,

395
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and the police at the King and Plant and some state police had been watching it,

396
00:39:58,240 --> 00:40:09,240
and then I also found that the crew of an Indianapolis Belt Railway train had been watching this thing for about 15 minutes as they came into Indianapolis from the east.

397
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It apparently came toward the city from the east at very low altitude, perhaps 500 feet, because it was close to the train and was down low,

398
00:40:17,240 --> 00:40:24,240
and since it was south of them, the lights of the city were shining on it, and they got a good look at it for about 15 minutes,

399
00:40:24,240 --> 00:40:38,240
and I used them on my program the next night, and it was a very interesting thing because I had quotes from the state troopers and the King and Plant guards and the leader of this choir and a lot of other people,

400
00:40:38,240 --> 00:40:43,240
so there wasn't much doubt that we had seen something very unusual.

401
00:40:44,240 --> 00:40:55,240
People who called the newspapers there were told that this was an advertising plane towing a lighted sign which said trade at Kroger's.

402
00:41:00,240 --> 00:41:06,240
What that Kroger plane was doing, taking off toward Louisville, I don't know.

403
00:41:07,240 --> 00:41:21,240
Well, of course, this was pretty ridiculous, or at least I thought it was, and then the guy who had the plane, I checked and I discovered that he had been to poker game that night and his plane hadn't been out of the hangar,

404
00:41:21,240 --> 00:41:34,240
but he was a real sharpie. He knew publicity when he saw it. The following night he went up with his plane, and incidentally it told a long rectangular sign that has a trillion little bulbs on it,

405
00:41:34,240 --> 00:41:42,240
and this thing is a ribbon. It's not a sphere at all, but a ribbon hanging out in the air, and it said, here I am again, Frank.

406
00:41:49,240 --> 00:42:03,240
Now, hundreds of people who saw that thing, who saw the object the night before, thought it was a spherical thing, and when they put that thing up the next night, they never got one single call on it.

407
00:42:04,240 --> 00:42:13,240
So I would say the chances are that we saw two different objects, two entirely different nature and purposes.

408
00:42:17,240 --> 00:42:31,240
We at NiCAP have had a long, hard fight, and I know that I speak for all the board members and all the scientists, retired military men who are interested in NiCAP, who are not members of the board.

409
00:42:31,240 --> 00:42:53,240
When I say to you that we sincerely thank the organizations like the Sacran Group and the Ufology Group in Cleveland and the many other groups all around the world who have so selflessly devoted their time and talent and in many cases their money to helping us gather the material that we need

410
00:42:54,240 --> 00:43:05,240
in order to come up with the evidence we need to try to force this thing into the open so that the public will get the answers to which they're entitled.

411
00:43:06,240 --> 00:43:23,240
Now, if, as the Air Force has hinted from time to time, if these things do present a potential menace to the United States, then I think that we are entitled to know just what this menace is.

412
00:43:24,240 --> 00:43:36,240
If you're hiring somebody to protect you and the guy says, oh, you're in danger tonight, I think you would feel that you were entitled to know what the devil the danger was.

413
00:43:36,240 --> 00:43:48,240
But the Air Force doesn't feel that way, apparently. They merely say, this is a potential menace. But there's nothing up there. We're menaced by nothing.

414
00:43:49,240 --> 00:44:00,240
On December the 24th, 1959, the Director General of the Air Force issued an order to every Air Base Commander in the United States.

415
00:44:00,240 --> 00:44:15,240
I'm sure many of you are familiar with it or the benefit of those who may not be familiar with it. Let me say that this order which went out to every Air Base Commander in the ZI, which is the zone of interior of the United States in its possession,

416
00:44:16,240 --> 00:44:31,240
the title was UFOs are serious business. The first line says, unidentified flying objects, sometimes treated lightly in the press and ridiculed as flying soldiers,

417
00:44:31,240 --> 00:44:40,240
actually constitute a very serious problem for the Air Force and must be dealt with strictly in accordance with the following rules and regulations.

418
00:44:41,240 --> 00:44:58,240
That is an Air Force official statement. This is what they're telling their own people. The last paragraph of that same order says that it gives instructions on how to equip the men who are going out to investigate these sightings and landings reports.

419
00:44:58,240 --> 00:45:08,240
And they must take with them in addition to a Geiger counter and some other things, a suitable container for the collection and preservation of samples.

420
00:45:09,240 --> 00:45:12,240
How in the devil do you collect samples of nothing?

421
00:45:16,240 --> 00:45:26,240
It all adds up to the fact that the Air Force has been engaged for some years in a carefully calculated policy of deceiving the American people.

422
00:45:26,240 --> 00:45:36,240
They are aided and abetted in this by some of the governments of some of the other countries. One of the other countries that does not go along with this policy is Brazil.

423
00:45:37,240 --> 00:45:49,240
Brazil has been by and large very outspoken in this matter. There were some reports on flying saucers out of Brazil very recently in the New York Times.

424
00:45:49,240 --> 00:46:00,240
And the interesting thing about it was that these things have been seen down there recently repeatedly over Brazilia, the new capital of Brazil, way back there in the interior.

425
00:46:00,240 --> 00:46:08,240
And the Brazilian government said it now becomes apparent that they are appearing over the city at regular intervals.

426
00:46:08,240 --> 00:46:18,240
There was no elaboration on that in the Times statement, so I don't know what they meant by that, whether they meant regular intervals every day or every month or every year.

427
00:46:18,240 --> 00:46:27,240
But I think it's important that the New York Times, which is certainly one of the most highly regarded papers in this country, carried that story.

428
00:46:27,240 --> 00:46:39,240
And I think it's important that the Brazilian government made a public statement of that kind, because it simply supports what so many of us have felt for so long.

429
00:46:39,240 --> 00:46:55,240
That the whole purpose of these objects in whatever form has been that of conducting a systematic and intensive surveillance of the principal communications centers, power centers, and military and industrial centers of the earth.

430
00:46:55,240 --> 00:47:02,240
And the study of their performance indicates that is exactly what happened, and that by and large it was completed a few years ago.

431
00:47:02,240 --> 00:47:05,240
Whether we're going into another phase of it or not, I don't know.

432
00:47:05,240 --> 00:47:20,240
But evidently something very important and very interesting is happening in Brazil, and the government there has had courage enough to speak out and at least tell the people what is going on, which is more than you find in this country.

433
00:47:20,240 --> 00:47:26,240
And here all you can do is to put up your money and shut your mouth and wait.

434
00:47:26,240 --> 00:47:35,240
I think the time must not be too far away when something is going to happen and these things are going to break into the open.

435
00:47:35,240 --> 00:47:48,240
And then a lot of people in this country who have been misled by some of these public statements are going to be in for quite a shock.

436
00:47:48,240 --> 00:47:53,240
And one fellow who would have been in for quite a shock except for that he already had his shock.

437
00:47:53,240 --> 00:47:56,240
This fellow is my nephew.

438
00:47:56,240 --> 00:48:00,240
Dr. Donald Dodd, who is a graduate of Indiana University.

439
00:48:00,240 --> 00:48:07,240
He's in charge of the charge department now at the Georgetown College at Georgetown, Kentucky.

440
00:48:07,240 --> 00:48:12,240
Donald is a very well educated land, obviously.

441
00:48:12,240 --> 00:48:17,240
And he knew all about flying saucers.

442
00:48:17,240 --> 00:48:20,240
He had read all the Air Force statements.

443
00:48:20,240 --> 00:48:26,240
He had read those cooking stories in the paper about these nutty people who were seeing those things.

444
00:48:26,240 --> 00:48:28,240
And it was pretty revolting to him.

445
00:48:28,240 --> 00:48:42,240
And I think he was quite a bashed, or I should say ashamed, to think that his own uncle was so stupid that he would get up and talk about these things in public.

446
00:48:42,240 --> 00:48:50,240
And he never said this, but I could tell by his attitude that he would have felt better about it if I had a little more common sense and kept quiet.

447
00:48:50,240 --> 00:48:53,240
And oh, he ripped me unmercifully.

448
00:48:53,240 --> 00:48:55,240
But that was nothing new.

449
00:48:55,240 --> 00:49:05,240
And about two years ago, he had a girl up at Valparaiso College at the northern part of Indiana.

450
00:49:05,240 --> 00:49:07,240
Of course, he had to go see her every Sunday.

451
00:49:07,240 --> 00:49:14,240
So he was charging up there in his old mobile and he went up and turned off on State Road 3.

452
00:49:14,240 --> 00:49:15,240
It was on Sunday night.

453
00:49:15,240 --> 00:49:19,240
He was listening to some particular program, which went off the air at eight o'clock.

454
00:49:19,240 --> 00:49:22,240
So he cut it off at eight o'clock, turned west on number three.

455
00:49:22,240 --> 00:49:23,240
It was dark.

456
00:49:23,240 --> 00:49:24,240
It was in the wintertime.

457
00:49:24,240 --> 00:49:28,240
There was no snow on the ground, but the clouds were down at about 6,000 feet.

458
00:49:28,240 --> 00:49:30,240
There was a heavy overcast at about 6,000 feet.

459
00:49:30,240 --> 00:49:31,240
It was pitch dark.

460
00:49:31,240 --> 00:49:34,240
He turned off on this road and it couldn't have been.

461
00:49:34,240 --> 00:49:37,240
He said more than two or three minutes after eight.

462
00:49:37,240 --> 00:49:39,240
I got a call from him at eight thirty.

463
00:49:39,240 --> 00:49:41,240
His tongue was hanging out.

464
00:49:41,240 --> 00:49:43,240
He sounded like he'd been running upstairs.

465
00:49:43,240 --> 00:49:46,240
And he said, Uncle Frank, Uncle Frank.

466
00:49:46,240 --> 00:49:48,240
I said, yeah, what's matter?

467
00:49:48,240 --> 00:49:50,240
Guess what I saw?

468
00:49:50,240 --> 00:49:54,240
I couldn't possibly have guessed.

469
00:49:54,240 --> 00:49:56,240
I said, well, tell me what you saw.

470
00:49:56,240 --> 00:49:59,240
I don't want to guess on your long distance time here.

471
00:49:59,240 --> 00:50:00,240
What did you see?

472
00:50:00,240 --> 00:50:02,240
Well, the story was this.

473
00:50:02,240 --> 00:50:09,240
Just after he turned off on number three, he saw some revolving yellow lights coming down to his right.

474
00:50:09,240 --> 00:50:12,240
And they were coming down at a rather acute angle.

475
00:50:12,240 --> 00:50:18,240
So he thought it was a helicopter coming down in the field.

476
00:50:18,240 --> 00:50:24,240
And he pulled over to the side of the road, stopped and got out of his car, walked over to the fence.

477
00:50:24,240 --> 00:50:30,240
And this thing came down over the field, but it stopped about five or six feet above the ground.

478
00:50:30,240 --> 00:50:34,240
And he guessed it was maybe a couple of hundred feet from him.

479
00:50:34,240 --> 00:50:38,240
And it hung there revolving very slowly, he said.

480
00:50:38,240 --> 00:50:44,240
And then it began to flash a beam down underneath it, an intensely white beam.

481
00:50:44,240 --> 00:50:46,240
He said, it looked like place bulbs going off.

482
00:50:46,240 --> 00:50:53,240
And it lasted a fraction of a second, but it was happening at about every second this beam was struck.

483
00:50:53,240 --> 00:51:00,240
And as it did, the glare revealed to him a craft that was obviously flat on the bottom, was some kind of a rounded dome.

484
00:51:00,240 --> 00:51:04,240
It was a very faintly glowing, sort of a reddish brown.

485
00:51:04,240 --> 00:51:09,240
And he said he realized all of a sudden that he had never seen anything like that before.

486
00:51:09,240 --> 00:51:12,240
And he had the feeling that he didn't want to see any more of it.

487
00:51:12,240 --> 00:51:16,240
So he turned around and made a dive to get in his car.

488
00:51:16,240 --> 00:51:20,240
And he was in such a hurry that he skinned up his shins,

489
00:51:20,240 --> 00:51:23,240
both his shins on the edge of the sill at the door.

490
00:51:23,240 --> 00:51:24,240
He missed it a little.

491
00:51:24,240 --> 00:51:30,240
But he got in, he got the car started, and he nearly jerked the transmission out of it.

492
00:51:30,240 --> 00:51:31,240
He said, getting away from there.

493
00:51:31,240 --> 00:51:36,240
And he said he never wanted to see another automobile sabbat in his life, as he did right at that moment.

494
00:51:36,240 --> 00:51:38,240
And there wasn't a thing in sight.

495
00:51:38,240 --> 00:51:43,240
And he looked out and this object was moving along even with him, keeping pace with him.

496
00:51:43,240 --> 00:51:48,240
And suddenly he slammed on his brakes as the thing turned and crossed the road in front of him.

497
00:51:48,240 --> 00:51:53,240
He said it did not at any time come closer than a couple of hundred feet.

498
00:51:53,240 --> 00:51:57,240
But as it went across the road in front of him, he said it banked like this with its top toward him,

499
00:51:57,240 --> 00:52:00,240
and his headlights were right on it.

500
00:52:00,240 --> 00:52:01,240
He got a good look at it.

501
00:52:01,240 --> 00:52:05,240
Then it went off to the left and stopped a couple of hundred feet off the road.

502
00:52:05,240 --> 00:52:08,240
And he said he wasn't about to go that way.

503
00:52:08,240 --> 00:52:11,240
And he was sitting there trying to figure what to do.

504
00:52:11,240 --> 00:52:13,240
And I imagine shaking is a hard he couldn't.

505
00:52:13,240 --> 00:52:17,240
Then the thing tilted up on edge and shot right straight up.

506
00:52:17,240 --> 00:52:23,240
And he said as it started up, the color changed from this rusty red to an orange and then to a white.

507
00:52:23,240 --> 00:52:27,240
And he said when he saw it go into the clouds, it was just blinding white.

508
00:52:27,240 --> 00:52:30,240
And he saw that place as one into clouds and it was gone.

509
00:52:30,240 --> 00:52:36,240
Then he made the mad dash to Valparaiso and he forgot to go pick up his girl.

510
00:52:36,240 --> 00:52:40,240
He went and called Uncle Frank.

511
00:52:40,240 --> 00:52:41,240
He said, what am I going to do?

512
00:52:41,240 --> 00:52:44,240
I said, all right, now you're an artist and you're a good one.

513
00:52:44,240 --> 00:52:46,240
Right while this thing is fresh in your mind.

514
00:52:46,240 --> 00:52:53,240
You draw a picture of it and be as just as accurate as you can as the way you remember.

515
00:52:53,240 --> 00:52:55,240
Draw it in color.

516
00:52:55,240 --> 00:52:57,240
In fact, draw three of them.

517
00:52:57,240 --> 00:53:02,240
You keep one, send me one and take one to the editor of the Valparaiso paper there, who me knew.

518
00:53:02,240 --> 00:53:06,240
And I said, you tell him what you saw and tell him that you drew this picture of it

519
00:53:06,240 --> 00:53:10,240
and you just wonder if he would run it and ask if anyone else had seen this thing.

520
00:53:10,240 --> 00:53:11,240
He said, what do you think?

521
00:53:11,240 --> 00:53:12,240
I ought to call the Air Force?

522
00:53:12,240 --> 00:53:14,240
I said, no, because you're nuts.

523
00:53:14,240 --> 00:53:21,240
Well, it was a loud, cruel blow.

524
00:53:21,240 --> 00:53:24,240
He said, well, I'm not nuts either.

525
00:53:24,240 --> 00:53:25,240
I know what I saw.

526
00:53:25,240 --> 00:53:27,240
I said, sure, you had hallucinations.

527
00:53:27,240 --> 00:53:29,240
Well, I know what I saw.

528
00:53:29,240 --> 00:53:34,240
I said, no, if you think you are nuts, you wait till the Air Force gets done with you.

529
00:53:34,240 --> 00:53:36,240
Well, sure enough, this thing appeared in the paper.

530
00:53:36,240 --> 00:53:41,240
Next day, here came a couple of guys out of Chicago to see.

531
00:53:41,240 --> 00:53:46,240
Well, they talked to him for a couple of hours and they questioned him singly

532
00:53:46,240 --> 00:53:49,240
and then they bought him and questioned him together and they were taping this

533
00:53:49,240 --> 00:53:53,240
and they had him fill out a bunch of questionnaires and all this stuff

534
00:53:53,240 --> 00:53:56,240
and they got one of this picture that he had.

535
00:53:56,240 --> 00:54:00,240
And then that afternoon, here came a couple of guys from the Air Force.

536
00:54:00,240 --> 00:54:03,240
The other fellows had been from Navy Intelligence.

537
00:54:03,240 --> 00:54:06,240
So after the Air Force guys had questioned him for a couple of hours,

538
00:54:06,240 --> 00:54:09,240
he was getting a little tired of this and he said, listen,

539
00:54:09,240 --> 00:54:11,240
he said, I have answered all your questions.

540
00:54:11,240 --> 00:54:13,240
I want you to answer one for me.

541
00:54:13,240 --> 00:54:15,240
And this Lieutenant Colonel was there.

542
00:54:15,240 --> 00:54:17,240
He said, all right, we'll be glad to.

543
00:54:17,240 --> 00:54:18,240
Professor, what did you have in mind?

544
00:54:18,240 --> 00:54:22,240
Well, he said, what was this thing that I saw?

545
00:54:22,240 --> 00:54:27,240
And this Colonel said, well, he said, we like to be as diplomatic as possible about this.

546
00:54:27,240 --> 00:54:33,240
But he said, lots of times, fellow be driving along, kind of dream off.

547
00:54:33,240 --> 00:54:38,240
And he said, you'll imagine things that aren't really there.

548
00:54:39,240 --> 00:54:47,240
Well, I guess what Donald told that Colonel was not for repetition before mixed company.

549
00:54:47,240 --> 00:54:53,240
And do you know to this day, he is no longer a skeptic.

550
00:54:53,240 --> 00:54:57,240
Incidentally, he hasn't had any more hallucinations either.

551
00:54:57,240 --> 00:55:00,240
But I'm sure that there must be a great many people.

552
00:55:00,240 --> 00:55:06,240
I had a call the other night from the news director of Channel 13 there in Indianapolis.

553
00:55:06,240 --> 00:55:08,240
He said, I got a wonderful thing to tell you.

554
00:55:08,240 --> 00:55:10,240
I said, what is it, Tom?

555
00:55:10,240 --> 00:55:17,240
He said, last night at 1.30 or this morning at 1.30, my wife and I saw a flying saucer.

556
00:55:17,240 --> 00:55:20,240
And I said, all right, what's the punchline?

557
00:55:20,240 --> 00:55:22,240
No, he said, no, my flight is true.

558
00:55:22,240 --> 00:55:24,240
And then he went ahead to tell me what they'd seen.

559
00:55:24,240 --> 00:55:27,240
Well, they saw something very unconventional.

560
00:55:27,240 --> 00:55:28,240
What it was, I don't know.

561
00:55:28,240 --> 00:55:31,240
But I suspect that they saw what they thought they saw.

562
00:55:31,240 --> 00:55:40,240
But at any rate, here was a guy who had been very, very key about this whole thing for years.

563
00:55:40,240 --> 00:55:45,240
All of a sudden his wife walked out there and looked up and there was this thing up there in the moonlit sky.

564
00:55:45,240 --> 00:55:50,240
She yelled for Tom and he came running out and Mama ran in and got the binoculars.

565
00:55:50,240 --> 00:55:56,240
They both got a good look at this thing and they both got goosebibbles too, may I add.

566
00:55:56,240 --> 00:55:59,240
But they were both pretty happy about the whole thing.

567
00:55:59,240 --> 00:56:01,240
And his whole attitude on the subject has changed.

568
00:56:01,240 --> 00:56:06,240
And he came out to my house the next day and borrowed all of Major Kehoe's books.

569
00:56:06,240 --> 00:56:14,240
So at least there'll be one news director there who will be well-informed on the subject.

570
00:56:14,240 --> 00:56:17,240
I don't have any big secrets to impart to you on this field.

571
00:56:17,240 --> 00:56:24,240
The only secret to it that I know is that you got to stay with it.

572
00:56:24,240 --> 00:56:32,240
And above all, when the Russian government has been hot and cold on the subject,

573
00:56:32,240 --> 00:56:39,240
they have kept, they have swung from one extreme to the other.

574
00:56:39,240 --> 00:56:46,240
Last October they tried to buy six of the double, of the double-grid cameras that the Air Force had built.

575
00:56:46,240 --> 00:56:48,240
You know, to photograph these things.

576
00:56:48,240 --> 00:56:53,240
The user's color film, two, it's a twin-lens job, 35-millimeter.

577
00:56:53,240 --> 00:56:56,240
On one side it takes a picture of the object or the light.

578
00:56:56,240 --> 00:57:03,240
On the other side it makes a spectroscopic strip of the same thing in the hope that we might be able to analyze it.

579
00:57:03,240 --> 00:57:06,240
Now the Air Force, Russia tried to buy six of those last October.

580
00:57:06,240 --> 00:57:08,240
We wouldn't sell them.

581
00:57:08,240 --> 00:57:18,240
Russia has had statements saying that these things are a form of western hysteria designed to disrupt the Russian people.

582
00:57:18,240 --> 00:57:24,240
And then they've had other statements saying that they've been seen and chased and they know where they come from.

583
00:57:24,240 --> 00:57:27,240
And so they've been all over the lot on the thing.

584
00:57:27,240 --> 00:57:31,240
And I don't think they really have any consistent policy.

585
00:57:31,240 --> 00:57:32,240
I don't know if that's a good thing.

586
00:57:32,240 --> 00:57:41,240
But I do know that they've had an awful lot of sightings, but there isn't really a free flow of information out of there.

587
00:57:41,240 --> 00:57:44,240
So I think we'll have a little trouble finding out.